Black Panther, In Respect of Retrospect

Some of you may have noticed in our Black Panther Roundtable, the notable absence of one of our Roundtable regulars. It's not that Zulu LaMar Forte didn't have much to say; it's that he had a lot. LaMar is one of the Cube's oldest friends and first supporters, and he's not just a comics fan but also  a true student of African history. There was a lot to lay out there in terms of the movie, and so, I turn it over to him.

Black Panther, In Respect of Retrospect

(or “Light A Candle, It's About to Get Real Black In Here”)

by Zulu LaMar Forte

When I saw the final costume for T'Challa in Captain America: Civil War, I had a feeling that Marvel was on to something. The costume itself told a story, in that moment. And it made me think about the stories that could be told within the MCU framework, whether or not they would be told, and what sort of care and attention would be given to the particulars.

Seemingly for a number of the people that have or will see this movie, just getting a movie with an all-black cast that gives them a good reason to pay top dollar for stale popcorn and a week's worth of carbonated beverages is good enough; as an African raised in the diaspora of North America, the norm for me is trusting people that don't look or think like me, that aren't me, to do justice to who my ancestors were...and ultimately, to who I am. And as much as I thoroughly enjoyed Black Panther I would be irresponsible to not give thought to it here, and look at it outside of the popcorn n' pop soda perspective. To put a film like this, which I found to be a multilayered marvel generally, under the proper scrutiny that I have never had the luxury of avoiding, I pose 3 questions, in three parts:

• Who was the African before colonization?

• Who was the African during colonization?

• Who is the African, afterward (and now)?

I: Who Was The African Before Colonization?

I could answer my own question with something like “the original man” or “the mother and father of civilization,” and while both those statements are factual, they still don't do our history justice. One of the lasting refrains of my life has been “What has Africa really contributed to the world?” and if I can be candid for a moment, “just about everything” is a more than appropriate answer: humanity, ethics, writing, spirituality, science, mathematics (the combination of the last three in particular is unique, and found nowhere else but at its place of origin), law, and social order are all human achievements that have both origins and highly developed apexes in Africa. Even the most staunch deniers of these would still have to admit that the world's wealth was made on the backs of my people, only for us to be locked out of benefiting from that wealth.

No conversation about Africa, or Africans, is complete without bringing up the pillar of our nature, and social order: the concept of Ma'at. Ma'at is the embodiment of a multitude of concepts such as truth, justice, righteousness, equality, reciprocity, sobriety, harmony...but the head of all these is balance. As a living concept Ma'at (this is the part where I make it clear: contrary to popular belief, what most people call the “gods” of Kemetic culture are not actual beings that people worshiped, they were attributes of nature given a human form and used to tell stories and teach lessons, as there was no concept of religion or need an outside savior) takes the form of a Kemetic woman, because the aforementioned concepts are considered feminine traits.

The Dora Milaje are based on Kemetic warrior queens such as Nzingha, but also on Marcus Garvey's all-woman bodyguard squad and the warrior women of Dahomey

This is not a slight or an insult, because that balance that Ma'at embodies is a universal balance reflected on all planes of existence, and as such that balance was also found in the relationship between a man and a woman. There was no misogyny, sexism, or hatred of women, because it never occurred to anybody to think of a woman as being anything other than equally divine when put beside a man. This is something that not many people can actually believe, or even appreciate properly, because all most of us know is the inverse. And when I explain this I almost always get a “well it's not like that anymore” and it usually comes from those of European ancestry, because they cannot imagine a world or people that have no concept or hatred for women and if they could, it would have to be a thing of the past, as opposed to something that still lives in the people that created it.

The first concept of what we would call a “goddess” later on comes from the Congo, and just so happens to coincide with the origin of humanity. Nut (newt) is the personified concept of the universe, and her body consists of the universe in its totality. Usually depicted as reaching across the sky, the heavenly bodies came directly from her womb, and the sun itself died every night only to be taken into her mouth and reborn in the morning. Pepi II of Kemet said “The heavens are found between the legs of the goddess Nut” famously, and Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannan, whom we call “Dr. Ben” lovingly, came along in the 20th century and brought it full circle: “Just as the heavens are found between the legs of Nut, on Earth heaven is found between the legs of the black woman.” You cannot have a concept like this and hate women, or think them beneath you, and likewise you cannot perpetuate a concept like this if you view men as being beneath you. This is what we call the dialectical law of opposites, and in African culture opposites are seen as divine instead of defined against a negative and corrupted structure.

This plays into Black Panther, being set in an African country that has defied colonization, and these concepts are clearly left intact because of it. It is the nature of Ma'at, and as a result the African, for the woman to be the giver of the ways, and the man to be the enforcer of the ways. Tehuti was the compliment of Ma'at and his role was to record events, and as such he scribed the 42 Negative Confessions as she called them out; his zoo-type was the ibis, because the long pointed bill of the ibis resembles a pen. T'Challa, a single and childless African man, has women around him that respect his position and in turn he knows and understands that his personal power comes directly from them. The movie did a fantastic job of laying a base for something that, for most people, is a foreign concept. Even the concept of the throne is born from the matrilineal system, as the throne is symbolic of the lap of the mother, and T'Challa's throne has the same configuration as ones we see in Kemetic reliefs and scrolls.

One thing that stuck out to me was the me'ri (love) between T'Challa and the women in the film. It isn't often that level of care is given to relationships between African men and women in films and television, and usually when it is done it's so heavy-handed and not well thought out. They had disagreements without yelling at one another, and never allowed these disagreements to interrupt or define their relationship. It was refreshing to see that, especially when we have other programs that show families, royal or not, at each others' necks so often. Not once did T'Challa call into question their capabilities, and even when he was defeated never did they consider deserting or berating him for it.

Ma'at is also shown in how the elders are treated. In the words of Baba John Henrik Clarke, “In Africa nobody had a word for “old folks' home” because nobody had ever thrown away grandma and grandpa.” Elders were-and are, despite the best attempts of a white supremacist patriarchal mechanism-revered and not looked at as dead weight. For example anybody that grew up in a black church knew that the oldest woman was known as “the mother of the church.” Not an official position, but the mother was given the highest respect and you'd get mangled for sitting in her favorite seat, in the least. The Wakandan elders were afforded the same esteem by everyone, even those not of royalty. One of the few ways I could come up with to make the film better was to have elders from out community in the movie; Winnie Mandela (RIP), Shaharazad Ali and Baba Dick Gregory (RIP) imparting wisdom to T'Challa, his sister Shuri, and even his mother Ramonda? Yes, every time and all the time.

I Photoshopped this pic of Baba Dick Gregory in traditional African garb

II: Who Was The African During Colonization?

The plight and struggle of the African today often makes for a tense and laborious discussion, mostly because of a failure or refusal to admit its genesis. The primary weapon of the conqueror, whether it be the European or the Arab before them, was a distortion and corruption of the greatest gift we gave to mankind. Despite the near-universal resistance to the idea, African spiritual concepts gave birth to what we now know as religion, and the fact that these concepts were distorted and used to attempt to destroy us is a violation that the English language has no suitable words for. Never mind that missionaries commonly worked as agents to “spread the word of God” in order to take away land from native Africans, often with death as an end result. Those details are typically seen as inconsequential or best left no discussed, as to not rile up people who may hear them and not take it well.

It isn't enough to say that colonization interrupted African progress; the conquering of Kemet halted human progress as a whole, because while Kemet wasn't the creator of most of these spiritual and scientific concepts, it was the zenith of them. We can attribute these scientific and spiritual concepts to both Kush (Ethiopia, and it's not a coincidence that 'ethics' has its birthplace here) and the aforementioned Congo.

Imhotep himself is paid tribute in the Hippocratic Oath, in the opening line. “I swear by Apollo the Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses” of course refers to Greek gods, and of those four gods only 3 are fictional. Asclepius is the Greek god of medicine, and is the name given Imhotep when they added him to their pantheon. Hippocrates himself declared “I am a child of Imhotep” due to him studying Imhotep's work, thousands of years after his death. Imhotep used what we consider modern medical tools, such as scalpels, as well as the first recorded prescriptions. 

I understood the mathematics involved with the Pythagorean Theorem because while I learned it formally in the 10th grade, I instantly recognized the theorem itself as being found in Kemetic mathematics-also knowing that Pythagoras studied with the Kheri Heb priests there. I always found it humorous that the Kheri Heb priests' curriculum consisted of 40 years of study, while Pythagoras, whom is considered to be one of the most intelligent people that ever lived, flunked out around year 22.

When looking at how Wakanda was depicted in Black Panther I immediately drew the parallel between it and both Kemet and Kush. Wakanda is a synthesis of the two, having Kemet's scientific pedigree while also maintaining Kush's spiritual and historic pedigree (Kush is one of the few African countries that was never conquered). I would imagine if Kemet was never conquered, it would look like Wakanda. I lamented with my nephew when talking about African history about what a sight it would be to see flying cars and trains zooming over and around the Great Pyramid of Giza, which would be in its original condition coated with white limestone. As excited as I am to go to Africa next year, not being able to watch the sun rise over the pyramids and have the light reflect off the limestone and across the desert is something that brings both a rage and bittersweet feeling I cannot describe.

The tribes of Wakanda are based on different African tribes.

Also I must state that there were several African dynasties and advanced cultures that were also destroyed, and while I can't go into detail here for lack of time and space, it's well worth the research.

The common line of thought, and this is why the language we uses matters, is that slaves were brought to what would later become the Americas and forced to work for free. But the fact is that doctors, artists, scientists, mathematicians, spiritualists and skilled people of all sorts were brought here and made slaves. This is an important distinction that must not be continued to be ignored or mimimalized.

III. Who Is The African, Afterward (And Now)?


Of the three questions posed, this one may be the most complex and the one most needing nuance. Of the many metaphors found throughout Black Panther the most continually referenced ones involve the relationship-and often battle-between African tradition and the contemporary circumstance that came with post-colonization Africans. We can go back to the early 20th century and see a great divide of perspective, most notable between The Talented Tenth and the followers of The Honorable Marcus Mosiah Garvey.

The Talented Tenth, who counted intellectual luminaries like W.E.B. Dubois amongst their number, were called so because they were considered the representatives of the ten percent of America-born Africans that had the privilege of a top shelf education (if you can call it that), and as such were allegedly the best qualified to lead their people to their destiny. From this tradition came the black bourgeoisie, or what can be called the “black and bougee” today. While their combined skill and knowledge base cannot be denied, these superlatives were often accompanied with an air of superiority that kept them from reaching the common person in their neighborhoods. They differed from other brilliant African minds like the previously mentioned Drs. Ben and Clarke in this manner; the latter split time between gathering a knowledge base and working with and for their people in an intimate manner, as well as training the next generation to do the same.

Marcus Mosiah Garvey created what is still the single greatest African movement ever founded in the Americas, and he did it by engaging Africans all over with his formidable oratory skills and then following up with strategic organizing. He had a vision of creating self-functioning communities that would lead to a way out of America and back to Africa, for those that wished to go, or a path to the kind of self reliance that a nation within a nation needs to sustain itself. His concept of Pan-Africanism didn't involve hating Europeans, as is the common trope associated with these sort of movements if you let outsiders tell it, but a re-instilling of pride in those of us with a direct African origin. Dr. Clarke compared the history of a people to a clock that gives them their accurate time of day, and a compass to direct them in the way they must go. And we as Africans have precious little to go on, compared to the other people of the world, thanks to the slave trade and how it destroyed the African family unit.

The pose that is known now as the “Wakanda Forever!” is the posture utilized by Ausar, while holding his staff and flail, most commonly seen in busts and Kemetic sarcophagi.

As T'Challa represents the traditional African man, Killmonger represents the African man born in the diaspora, long ago cut loose from the physical shackles of chattel slavery but still bound by the same spiritual and mental chains that prevent a people from their original destiny, in turn taking up the task of carrying out his master's ways and being the reflection of him instead of his Great Mother that nursed the entire planet in her lap.

One thing I keep hearing from moviegoers is how they wanted to see Killmonger have a redemption arc that ended with him ruling at T'Challa's side. This would have been impossible. Throughout the movie, he had no qualms about enacting gross violence towards his people, but especially the women. He starts the film out being violent towards a woman, and even when he is shown with an African woman he seems to care about, he has no problem killing her when she has outlived her usefulness. Such an egregious violation of Ma'at would have been more than enough to get him executed. Then once he becomes the nessu (king) his first act as a regent is to enact violence on an elder (also a woman). This is the sort of spirit and action that you can't just happily-ever-after from in a matrilineal society. He was well beyond redemption and this is what made his last line just as much of a violation; he didn't call on his ancestors once the entire movie, until it fit his purpose. That moment showed he had no interest in being anything they were, and it recalls one of Marcus Garvey's most famous quotes: "I have no desire to take all Black people back to Africa; there are Blacks who are no good here and will likewise be no good there."

The film explores other African motif and imagery (not at all intended to be all-inclusive):

• During the club scene the outfits of T'Challa, Okoye and Nakia mirrored the colors of the Pan-African flag.
• In the final fight scene Killmonger and Black Panther fight on an underground railroad.
• The elders of Wakanda are wearing actual African garb from different African tribes.
• The pose that is known now as the “Wakanda Forever!” is the posture utilized by Ausar, while holding his staff and flail, most commonly seen in busts and Kemetic sarcophagi.
• The Dora Milaje are based on Kemetic warrior queens such as Nzingha, but also on Marcus Garvey's all-woman bodyguard squad and the warrior women of Dahomey

To close, I'd like to thank anyone and everyone that stuck with this thing to the end. I hope you learned something, or at least found something worth thinking about. This is just a surface reflection of what I could go into, but I find that the subject of the history of my people is very rewarding when self researched.

Also I'd like to dedicate this piece to all my mothers, those both here in the now and transitioned. Peace be upon you, and may the universe be pleased with you. Ase, ase, ase-o.

An Interview with Ta-Nehisi Coates

In December of 2015, The Comics Cube received a huge compliment from Ta-Nehisi Coates, who said that the website had been helpful for him in getting started on his first comic. Four months later, he was writing the bestselling comic book of 2016, Black Panther. With the King of Wakanda taking the world by storm with what is so far the third-biggest movie domestically of all time, and with Ta-Nehisi Coates being named the next writer of Captain America, we thought we’d reach out to see how life has led Ta-Nehisi to this point, and what we can expect from his work moving forward.

OF MONARCHS AND PATRIOTS

AN INTERVIEW WITH TA-NEHISI COATES

by Duy Tano

Black Panther Volume 1 in Hardcover

DUY TANO: First of all, I want to thank you so much for the compliments you gave two years ago.

TA-NEHISI COATES: Oh, no, man. I know how it is — I know it’s weird, but you know, I started with this little blog that I had, and I couldn’t really make a living being a writer. And that was a long period, I guess. You know, people love things, and they want to write about things… I don’t know, you shouldn’t forget that. You should remember that. And so even once I got to the point where I could actually make a living, the love was very much still there. So I try to remember there are people out there who make their living doing other things — I don’t know how you make your living, actually! (laughter) —but you want to support people being able to write about things that they love. That’s the point I’m trying to get to.

So when you were growing up, it’s pretty clear that you were a big comics fan. Who were your particular favorites?

You mean heroes or writers?

We’ll start with characters, then we’ll go to writers.

Spider-Man was a big one, and then the X-Men. You know, the old X-Factor from the 80s. That was big. I was a Wolverine guy. This is before Wolverine became what Wolverine became. I mean, he was just getting big, you know what I mean? Like his first series started — not miniseries, the first series — I have Wolverine #1, and it was a big deal, but it wasn’t to the point where he had to appear in every book yet. They hadn’t quite gotten it yet. So I was a huge Wolverine guy.

In terms of writers, you know it’s weird, because back then, I know now who I followed and who I liked, even though I wasn’t aware, because you have to remember, I was a young child, man. I started collecting when I was like eight, nine years old. So I didn’t have awareness of writers. Then I stopped when I was like fourteen and got in high school and got into other things. But at the time, I was a big fan of that Ron Frenz/Tom DeFalco run on Spider-Man.

Yeah!

Loved that. Big Roger Stern guy, from his stuff on The Avengers.

Under Siege!

Oh my God, I loved that. Under Siege was incredible. I was talking to Ed Brubaker the other day and he was giving me advice on Captain America, and he told me to read Roger Stern’s Cap, and I said, man, you gotta read Under Siege. I mean, it’s just ridiculously good. Still. It holds up, you know?

It’s great. You ever read Roger Stern and John Byrne’s Captain America?

Not yet. Not yet. How many issues is it?

It’s like eight issues long, and then they got taken off the book.

That’s what Ed was talking about. He was advising me to go read that, and I haven’t yet, but I will. And also, the first comics I bought was John Byrne’s Fantastic Four. This was one of the first books that was in my collection. I bought that and a Teen Titans issue, but for some reason I just stuck with Marvel.

Is it possible because Marvel was the “cool” brand? In grade school, I remember I was a DC guy and no one else was a DC guy, so I had to get into Marvel too to play along.

Yeah, I didn’t perceive it that way. I think, rightly or wrongly — probably wrongly — I perceived Marvel as having a level of depth. I think back to that first issue I bought, and it’s the one where the Psycho-Man has imprisoned the Fantastic Four, and he’s manipulating She-Hulk’s fear. The whole issue is about She-Hulk getting over that fear and fighting the Psycho-Man. And if you’re nine years old, ten years old, eight years old, however old I was, that’s pretty deep. That has some weight. It’s not just some bang, pow, whatever. And it’s weird, because I think I should have been primed to be a DC guy, because I watched Super Friends a lot when I was a kid, but it just didn’t translate.

Speaking of writers, is there a particular writer you emulate or are inspired by?

At the time?

At the time, and now.

So I think back to all the things I liked when I was a kid, so I guess I was thinking of (Chris) Claremont when I first started. My comic book collecting life has gone through phases, so there’s a very young phase, when I was in elementary or middle school —started elementary, lasted till middle. I don’t think I was eight, I think I was nine or ten. And then there was an adult phase that began when I was about twenty-five, twenty-six, and that was because I found myself in a difficult place in my life and comic books kinda helped with that. And that continued intermittently up until the point when I started collecting. And so when I got the job to write, I had to look at it differently. I had to look at it like a writer. ‘Cause you know, the form changed so much.

Black Panther #9, cover by Brian Stelfreeze and Laura Martin

So when I started Black Panther, there was one person I thought about a lot. It was (Jonathan) Hickman. Hickman’s ambition and imagination was just so vivid and huge, and even when all of the storylines didn’t connect and everything didn’t ultimately flesh out, I didn’t really care. I just liked living in his world. And that’s weird to say, but I liked being there. So I guess this is the beginning of his Avengers run, ‘cause I actually had to go back and read much of that Fantastic Four stuff. But the beginning of his Avengers run, where it’s, all sorts of crazy s*** happens. And it’s probably my favorite Avengers run. ‘Cause I think as comic book fans, a lot of the time, at least on the internet, we tend to be conservative, and we want classic renditions. And his was just so non-classic. And I loved it, so when my turn came to write, I wanted to do something ambitious and big.

Your journalistic and nonfiction writing tackles a lot about the state of current events, racial dynamics, and everything. How does that inform the way you write comics?

It’s usually the same questions. You know, I write a lot about race, right? And racism and white supremacy, but what I’m ultimately writing about is power, and this is the lens with which to see power that most interests me. But when I go over to Black Panther, it’s not about racism or white supremacy. But I’m actually still writing about power. It’s the same thing. And in Captain America, which won’t really in any direct way be about race, racism, or white supremacy either, it’s still about power. It’s still about power, you know? And that just is the most interesting thing to me. That really is probably the connection.

Your Black Panther run does cover a lot of intersectional demographics. You have black LGBTQ characters, for example, and it’s got shades of gray throughout. I was wondering what message it is you hope people take away from such a diverse group of characters and the power dynamics between them? Because quite honestly it could be said that Black Panther in your run isn’t necessarily always right.

Black Panther #12, cover by Brian Stelfreeze and Laura Martin

Yeah, and I want to read stories like that. What made those Claremont books so great is that you weren’t sure Professor X was right. Maybe Magneto really was right. There’s an issue in Jim Shooter’s much-maligned Secret Wars where they think Magneto did something. And Captain America’s going after Magneto, and Wolverine stands up for Magneto. He jumps all over Captain America. He says “You claim to defend America, but we mutants are getting pushed into the sea, and where were you?” And so that always appealed to me about Marvel. That sort of shading. Well, who’s really right here? It’s the protagonist who I’m writing about, but I don’t know that the protagonist can necessarily be objectively, clearly right.

I mean, you’ve seen this debate with the Black Panther film. It’s one of the great things Ryan (Coogler) did, right? People are actually debating, was Kilmonger right? That’s incredible. That’s how you know when you’ve done good.

I feel obliged to ask, since I work in marketing, is there a particular demographic in mind for your target audience? Is it hardcore comics fans, fans who would not necessarily step into a store but would buy it in paperback, minority readers, or just yourself, the type of comics you would’ve wanted to read when you were younger?

I think that’s the answer. It’s twelve-year-old me. (laughter)

That’s the one who’s definitely gonna enjoy it! So in Black Panther, we noticed that you basically recreated the map of Wakanda. Previous maps have existed, but where once they said things like “Deep, uncharted terrain,” you’ve given them Wakandan names and a whole history. Can you elaborate on the importance of having done this?

The modern map of Wakanda

The map that I had seen before was Don McGregor’s map. And Don was the one who really created Wakanda as a world. So I’m in his debt for that. At the same time, it had been about thirty or forty years, so I felt like maybe I could update it a little bit. I wish I had more time! It’s one of the things I’m thinking about right now. We’re going into this intergalactic empire/Wakanda space. And if I could, man, I’m trying to figure out how to design star maps and stuff like that for the galaxy. I have the notes. I got the names for the galaxies that comprise the empire. And it actually took a long time in Photoshop to try to figure out that one map. I don’t have any skills in that at all. I did that myself.

That’s cool!

Yeah, that’s me! And then they went and had their office do the finishing touches and everything. But to figure out things like a star map, that’s the kind of thing I want to work on. Because I want people to feel like they’re immersed in a world, like you’re part of it, like this is a real ongoing thing.

Yeah, the only people right now who I believe are doing that are you and Jason Aaron on Thor.

Yeah, but it’s good. It gives comic book fans a sense of the world being real.

I gotta ask this, because I’m a big Thor fan. But you’re using a lot of gods right now. Is there any chance of a crossover in the near future?

Me and Jason talked about that! Actually, we talked about it with Avengers, because there’s obviously some commonality with Panther and Cap being Avengers. But maybe we should, I don’t know! I love Jason!

That’s great! I hope it works out.

Not a bad suggestion.

So what was it like knowing you were working on Black Panther, you’re the guy bringing it to life every month on the printed page and on digital… and all of a sudden this movie hits. And it’s this huge thing. What was that like for you? How much did it mean to you, for this character to be introduced to this wide new audience?

I would just describe it like this: I was on a plane, coming back from LA, and this stewardess gave me the Wakandan salute. You know, it’s this black woman with dreads, and she just gave me the Wakandan salute. I mean…

Did you tell her you write Black Panther?

She knew! That’s why she gave me that salute. It’s been surreal. I feel like I got an essay about what it was like. It’s been intense. It’s been really, really intense.

And it’s not stopping.

It’s not stopping! It’s not stopping. The best part though for me is how much it has upped the game for what kind of comic books I need to be creating. I gotta do better. I really feel like that. And it’s good to feel like that. It’s good to feel like I really, really got to do better. I mean, this script that I’m working on now, right? It’s like this space battle between these starfighters in the empire. I’ve never done anything like that. And I have to try to do that, to challenge myself to do that.

Ryan’s a great artist, so I haven’t just benefited from the film, but from his friendship. And so I was telling him about how the film has upped the standard of the comic book, and how I wanted to be, just a better writer of fight scenes. And he said to me, why don’t you just write twelve straight issues of just fight scenes? Write as much as possible. And that was just such a tremendous suggestion. To have somebody around you like that, to say something like that. It’s been huge, man.

Is there any directive from Marvel to make the comic characters more in line with the movie versions? I am, of course, thinking of Shuri.

No, not Shuri. I think you might see some spinoffs and limited series that take advantage of that. For the people wanting to see Okoye or wanting to see Shuri. No, on the contrary, there’s an issue out now. It did two things. There’s Okoye making her first appearance, at least in my run, and there’s the actual Wakandan salute from the movie. But that’s me and Leonard (Kirk). You know what I mean? That’s not Marvel saying, hey, Okoye’s really hot right now, you should really put Okoye in the book. It was, man, I saw Okoye in the film and I thought, oh my God, she’s incredible. Like to me she’s the best thing about it. In terms of characters she’s my favorite character in that film.

She’s my girlfriend’s favorite too. I just wanted to say that because she’s in the room right now.

Woo! She’s got the spear, she’s leaping off the balcony, and her dress is flaring. It’s beautiful. It’s really, really beautiful. So I felt more inspired by the film to write stuff and to be a certain way than I felt pressure from Marvel to do it.

That’s great, because I think some creators might feel annoyed when they change too much from the comics.

Nah, Ryan’s gotta do his thing, and it gives me inspiration, you know what I mean?

Moving on to Captain America, what does the idea of writing him mean to you, both as a writer and an African-American person? Because I think you’re the first non-white guy to be writing him as an ongoing, right?

Yeah, I think Christopher Priest did Captain America and the Falcon. So I think there’s some debate about what you consider to be first and what’s official, and all of that. I’m not so concerned about that. I think for me the big honor is… like I read Ed’s Winter Soldier arc years ago. When I was still on Twitter, I could not stop talking about that thing. It was revelatory to me. Not just the Winter Soldier arc, but the Death of Captain America. In a time when people kill off characters for shock value all the time – like I don’t think I’ve killed off anybody in Black Panther yet. And one of the reasons I haven’t is just that it’s done for so much shock value that I haven’t really done it. To actually kill somebody and make a story, a real story out of it, that’s one of my favorite comic book stories, period. That and Winter Soldier put together, those back-to-back arcs, it’s inspiring to be able to take up that character after that. I don’t know, it’s huge.

Like I said in my blog post, just the notion that people think this sort of dude is like Joe Blow nationalisme, you know what I mean? And he’s not. He’s not even that in the movies, if you watch the movies closely. Half the time, he’s fighting against the government, be that taken over by Hydra, be that folks trying to have a registration act, so I don’t know. I’m excited.

I’m very excited for you. Congratulations on that gig.

Thank you.

Captain America #1 cover, out in July, by Alex Ross

Do you find it difficult to follow in the wake of current events with Captain America? Because I think the Hydra storyline is still fresh in people’s minds. I know Mark Waid is trying to get rid of that, but just looking at the internet it looks like a lot of people are still focused on the Hydra Cap thing. Any pressure on getting away from that?

No, no, see, I love continuity. So for me, the fact that Cap was banished to this other universe and there was somebody else using his name, who led Hydra against these heroes and now he has to come back and be Cap, and he has to use that same name, that same face, that same uniform, and to not just regain the trust of his country, but his trust in himself? This is grit for me! This is good storytelling stuff for me. This is the little bits that you make gravy out of from the bottom of the pan.

So no, listen, man, this is a dude whose girlfriend — the love of his life — was sleeping with a clone of his for like a year! What kind of issues must they have? No, forget the issues they must have, what kind of issues does she have herself? You know what I’m saying? This is good stuff! This is really really great stuff.

So much of writing is not in the idea, but in the telling. So I don’t know, I don’t fear that at all.

I’ve noticed that people still call Captain America: The Winter Soldier the best Marvel Cinematic Universe movie, and I think a lot of it is in the telling, like that twist really takes you by surprise.

Yeah it does. You’re exactly right. So many people like that twist. I would actually argue – and Black Panther will threaten this if it gets a trilogy – but to me, just in terms of competence in storytelling, the Captain America movies are probably my favorite.

It’s the best, top to bottom, isn’t it?

Top to bottom, one, two, three. It has an amazing level of consistency. It’s certainly my favorite superhero one, but I put it right up there with Star Wars. Star Wars is more epic, more sprawling, but I think just in terms of even quality of movies? One, two, three is pretty damn good for Captain America.

Yeah, I think the first movie is really underrated.

Oh, that first movie is hellaciously underrated. I watched it recently. It’s a really solid movie, a really, really solid movie. Perfect casting. Chris Evans, he’s got him. The first one is really underrated.

Chris Evans has got him in a way I don’t think anyone else has got their characters.

I would even say Downey on Stark. Downey on Stark is really good, but Chris Evans, he’s got him. He’s got him.

I live in the Philippines, so I definitely have to ask this for my Filipino readers. What’s it like working with Leinil Yu?

Oh man, Leinil is incredible. He’s incredible. I wish you guys could see some of his stuff. You’ll see it soon enough. I was telling him yesterday – he sent some pencils in. This is a pretty heavy storyline we’re trying to tell, and there’s this emotional weight and power that he brings. It’s beyond anything that I’ve worked with, I’ll just say that.

And you’ve worked with some very good artists.

Yeah, (Brian) Stelfreeze is incredible, he’s absolutely incredible. And I don’t want to be in the habit of comparing people, but weight is what I think of. Gravitas, almost, that he brings to these things.

Can you give us a short preview as to what things we can expect from your Captain America run? Which villains are gonna show up, which themes are you gonna tackle?

Well, I think the first arc is all about trust. Does Cap trust himself? Do people around him trust him? And does America trust him? What is America? What is he actually captain of? What is he returning to? That’s what I’ll say, ‘cause I gotta be careful.

And are there plans of a Captain America/Black Panther crossover at some point?

Um…we’ll see.

Thank you very much for the time.

No problem.